Math challenge

[Joe Snod]

How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

[Rui Maciel]

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

Why do you ask this?


Rui Maciel

[Androcles]

"Joe Snod" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c923b14f-1311-4e13-b670-***@k10g2000yqa.googlegroups.com...
|
| How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
| ward to sea level?

What is a lower 9th ward when it is at home?

[Puppet_Sock]

Post by Androcles
|
| How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
| ward to sea level?
What is a lower 9th ward when it is at home?

I'm guessing he's talking New Orleans.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Ninth_Ward

Wikie reports rea 4.2 km^2, but elevation zero. So, by that
data, it's already at sea level. Odd, since it flooded twice
due to hurricanes.

Well, let's do a rough-estimate for raising the elevation by
one meter. Then when we get more reliable data on how
much it needs to be raised, we'll just multiply by the number
of meters.

One meter over 4.2 km^2 is 4.2 million cubic meters.
As a rough estimate (very rough) take a cubic meter of
gravel to be 2 tonnes. So we need 8.4 million tonnes.
A hopper car of gravel is about 100 tonnes. So we need
about 84,000 hopper cars of gravel to raise this ward
by 1 meter.

Of course, it's unlike 1 meter will be enough. Most probably
you'd need at least 5 meters to have any kind of safety factor.

wiki-answers says gravel is about $25/tonne. So that 8.4
million tonnes would cost round about $210 million, not
counting transportation. I have no idea how far you'd
need to travel to find that much gravel.

If you bump it up to 5 meters it's over $1 billion.

However, gravel is a poor fill material. It's not good to
build even an ordinary residential building on as it
will shift and settle. So there would have to be quite
a few boulders in there. And it wouldn't be just as easy
as trucking the stuff in and dumping it. It would need to
be packed and so on so that you didn't get lots of sink
holes and erosion the first time it rains. So it's pretty
likely that the total cost would be a lot higher than just
the gravel.

Most probably it would be way cheaper to find some
place that does not flood and build there.
Socks

[Androcles]

Post by Androcles
|
| How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
| ward to sea level?
What is a lower 9th ward when it is at home?

I'm guessing he's talking New Orleans.

============================
Ok, thanks.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Ninth_Ward

Wikie reports rea 4.2 km^2, but elevation zero. So, by that
data, it's already at sea level. Odd, since it flooded twice
due to hurricanes.

Well, let's do a rough-estimate for raising the elevation by
one meter. Then when we get more reliable data on how
much it needs to be raised, we'll just multiply by the number
of meters.

One meter over 4.2 km^2 is 4.2 million cubic meters.
As a rough estimate (very rough) take a cubic meter of
gravel to be 2 tonnes. So we need 8.4 million tonnes.
A hopper car of gravel is about 100 tonnes. So we need
about 84,000 hopper cars of gravel to raise this ward
by 1 meter.

Of course, it's unlike 1 meter will be enough. Most probably
you'd need at least 5 meters to have any kind of safety factor.
===========================================
16 feet? Much of Florida is only 4 feet above high tide.
Port Charlotte and Punta Gorda were hit by Hurricane Charlie but
not flooded. That doesn't mean it won't be some day, though.

The area you refer to is made of water-borne silt, carried
downstream by the Mississippi. If it were flooded only once
every thousand years then it was flooded a thousand times
in the last million years. A thousand years is a long time in
human history, but nothing at all in geological history.
============================================

wiki-answers says gravel is about $25/tonne. So that 8.4
million tonnes would cost round about $210 million, not
counting transportation. I have no idea how far you'd
need to travel to find that much gravel.

If you bump it up to 5 meters it's over $1 billion.

However, gravel is a poor fill material. It's not good to
build even an ordinary residential building on as it
will shift and settle. So there would have to be quite
a few boulders in there. And it wouldn't be just as easy
as trucking the stuff in and dumping it. It would need to
be packed and so on so that you didn't get lots of sink
holes and erosion the first time it rains. So it's pretty
likely that the total cost would be a lot higher than just
the gravel.

Most probably it would be way cheaper to find some
place that does not flood and build there.
Socks
=====================================
Yeah, well, someone sees land they can grow sugar cane on,
builds a house on it and some shacks for the slaves, before
you know it a city grows up around a port and Ol' Man Ribber
just keeps rolling along, dumping silt. The cane was a good
investment, the city a bad one, you can't stop hurricanes and
tidal surges. But at the time the city was built the knowledge
was not there, except perhaps by a few who were not listened
to. I agree, move inland.
Same with LA. They KNOW they are living on a fault line,
they KNOW an earthquake is coming, and when it comes
they'll be saying "Help, we've had a disaster!" and expect
aid. Get out of the region and make it farmland again. But
they won't. Human beings have always been economically
expendable and the young take risks, it will never happen to
them.

[Joe Snod]

Post by Puppet_Sock

Post by Androcles
|
| How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
| ward to sea level?
What is a lower 9th ward when it is at home?

I'm guessing he's talking New Orleans.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lower_Ninth_Ward
Wikie reports rea 4.2 km^2, but elevation zero. So, by that
data, it's already at sea level. Odd, since it flooded twice
due to hurricanes.
Well, let's do a rough-estimate for raising the elevation by
one meter. Then when we get more reliable data on how
much it needs to be raised, we'll just multiply by the number
of meters.
One meter over 4.2 km^2 is 4.2 million cubic meters.
As a rough estimate (very rough) take a cubic meter of
gravel to be 2 tonnes.  So we need 8.4 million tonnes.
A hopper car of gravel is about 100 tonnes. So we need
about 84,000 hopper cars of gravel to raise this ward
by 1 meter.
Of course, it's unlike 1 meter will be enough. Most probably
you'd need at least 5 meters to have any kind of safety factor.
wiki-answers says gravel is about $25/tonne. So that 8.4
million tonnes would cost round about $210 million, not
counting transportation. I have no idea how far you'd
need to travel to find that much gravel.
If you bump it up to 5 meters it's over $1 billion.
However, gravel is a poor fill material. It's not good to
build even an ordinary residential  building on as it
will shift and settle. So there would have to be quite
a few boulders in there. And it wouldn't be just as easy
as trucking the stuff in and dumping it. It would need to
be packed and so on so that you didn't get lots of sink
holes and erosion the first time it rains. So it's pretty
likely that the total cost would be a lot higher than just
the gravel.
Most probably it would be way cheaper to find some
place that does not flood and build there.
Socks

A better depth is 15 feet, giving 14,344 cubic yards. Who in here
knows the volume of a railroad car?

[mike3]

On Sep 2, 2:21 pm, Joe Snod <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
<snip>

A better depth is 15 feet, giving 14,344 cubic yards.  Who in here
knows the volume of a railroad car?

That's just 4.5 m -- not going to really reduce the volume that much
compared to 5 m. 14,344 cubic yards? It sounds like you don't want to
fill up the entire lower 9th ward. That is woefully too small -- only
11,000 m^3. 4.5 m x 4,200,000 m^2 = 18,900,000 m^3 of fill.

11,000 m^3 would only raise an area of 2444m^2. What's that? A big
building? A few houses? 'Cause it's certainly not the whole lower
9th ward.

This here has dimensions for one particular make of hopper car:
http://www.freightcaramerica.com/aluminum-autofloodiii-hopper-car.htm

The capacity is said to be 4200 cubic feet, or 4603 if you have a 10
inch heap. I presume by "heap" they mean heaping the gravel (or
whatever)
above the top of the car (overfill). So if we used overfilled cars,
that's 4603 / (3.28^3) (metric is much better) ~ 130 m^3. Thus,
it'd take about 18,900,000 / 130 ~ over 145,000 hopper cars of the
type listed to fill the lower 9th ward with 4.5 m of any sort of
filling material.

[dlzc]

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to
fill the lower 9th ward to sea level?

Why don't we spend the money to move it all 5 miles inland, instead?
That'd buy us another 10 years, whereas gravel would post significant
settling issues, and failure in 2 or less.

David A. Smith

[Frank]

Post by dlzc

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to
fill the lower 9th ward to sea level?

Why don't we spend the money to move it all 5 miles inland, instead?
That'd buy us another 10 years, whereas gravel would post significant
settling issues, and failure in 2 or less.
David A. Smith

Around here, you're not allowed to build in a 100 year flood plane.
Since the 9th Ward has flooded at least twice in the last 100 years,
they should just make it into a park.

[RichD]

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.

One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"

You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

--
Rich

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:42:25 -0700 (PDT), RichD

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

Jump up and down. The amount of required motion is not specified, so
any amount will do (perhaps a billionth of the diameter of an
electron).

[Gene]

Post by Spehro Pefhany
On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:42:25 -0700 (PDT), RichD

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates  (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item:  "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee.  How do you answer?

Jump up and down. The amount of required motion is not specified, so
any amount will do (perhaps a billionth of the diameter of an
electron).

Or take a bucket of earth from the north face and dump it on the
south.

[osmium]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

Find a computer and type the query
"how do you move mount fuji"
in as a Google search target.

[Dirk Bruere at NeoPax]

Post by osmium

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

Find a computer and type the query
"how do you move mount fuji"
in as a Google search target.

Bing - next...

[Tim Wescott]

Post by Dirk Bruere at NeoPax

Post by osmium

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

Find a computer and type the query
"how do you move mount fuji"
in as a Google search target.

Bing - next...

No, Bing is connected to Yahoo, not Google.

(Microsoft now does all the searches for Yahoo, which explains why my
Altavista searches are broken. So now I have to find out if Google
advanced search is any good).

[m II]

Post by Tim Wescott
No, Bing is connected to Yahoo, not Google.
(Microsoft now does all the searches for Yahoo, which explains why my
Altavista searches are broken. So now I have to find out if Google
advanced search is any good).

http://ixquick.com/eng/power-search.html


and, as a bonus, they promise not to spy on you.






mike

[m II]

Post by m II
http://ixquick.com/eng/power-search.html
and, as a bonus, they promise not to spy on you.

It just keeps getting better and better....


http://ixquick.com/eng/advanced-search.html



mike

[Tim Wescott]

Post by m II

Post by m II
http://ixquick.com/eng/power-search.html
and, as a bonus, they promise not to spy on you.

It just keeps getting better and better....
http://ixquick.com/eng/advanced-search.html

When I was doing research for my junior thesis I got to use a library
indexing system that would let you use boolean expressions:

(control AND loop AND adaptive) NOT (steam OR PID OR sewage)

I'm still waiting for that to come to web searches.

[Muzaffer Kal]

Post by Tim Wescott

Post by m II

Post by m II
http://ixquick.com/eng/power-search.html
and, as a bonus, they promise not to spy on you.

It just keeps getting better and better....
http://ixquick.com/eng/advanced-search.html

When I was doing research for my junior thesis I got to use a library
(control AND loop AND adaptive) NOT (steam OR PID OR sewage)
I'm still waiting for that to come to web searches.

Waiting for some which is already here is probably a race condition,
eh?

Bing supports this (alas you can't make a link to the help page which
shows it):

"Advanced search options

Find what you're looking for in less time. Use the following symbols
to quickly modify your search term or search function:
Symbol Function
+ Finds webpages that contain all the terms that are preceded by
the + symbol. Also allows you to include terms that are usually
ignored.
" " Finds the exact words in a phrase.
() Finds or excludes webpages that contain a group of words.
AND or & Finds webpages that contain all the terms or phrases.
NOT or - Excludes webpages that contain a term or phrase.
OR or | Finds webpages that contain either of the terms or
phrases."

Also google has something pretty close.

[Lie Ryan]

Post by Tim Wescott

Post by m II

Post by m II
http://ixquick.com/eng/power-search.html
and, as a bonus, they promise not to spy on you.

It just keeps getting better and better....
http://ixquick.com/eng/advanced-search.html

When I was doing research for my junior thesis I got to use a library
(control AND loop AND adaptive) NOT (steam OR PID OR sewage)
I'm still waiting for that to come to web searches.

actually google allows you to do that, the "Advanced search" is
basically a GUI for composing these operators, but if you know the
syntax, you can do really complex queries.

+word : search for exact word (disables synonym searches)
-word : excludes pages containing the word
~word : also searches for synonyms
A OR B : matches one of A or B
A AND B : matches both A and B (default behavior when no OR)
"..." : searches for phrase in quote (instead of their words)
foo * bar: wildcard search

and there are operators like:
site: www.mysite.com : site-specific search
inurl: : search for the word in URLs
intitle: search for words in <title></title>
filetype: (e.g. pdf, doc)
related: search for pages related to another page
define: search for definitions (dictionaries, encyclopedias, etc)

the advanced search exposes many more, such as searching for page
updated between a certain time range; or distributed under specific
license; or pages from certain area; or for numbers between a certain range.

More techniques:
http://www.google.com/support/websearch/bin/answer.py?answer=136861
http://lifehacker.com/339474/top-10-obscure-google-search-tricks

However, frequent Googlers would notice that these advanced operators
are really rarely needed, because Google is very good at mind reading
(and sometimes it's so good, it could freak you out). For example, when
I search for "python", it directs me to python programming language
website, not to snake-taming website, while a zoo keeper usually would
get the reverse result.

[m II]

Post by Lie Ryan
However, frequent Googlers would notice that these advanced operators
are really rarely needed, because Google is very good at mind reading
(and sometimes it's so good, it could freak you out). For example, when
I search for "python", it directs me to python programming language
website, not to snake-taming website, while a zoo keeper usually would
get the reverse result.

I am a zookeeper who would LIKE to learn Python programming language,
but all I ever get on the Google results are stupid snake sites.

How can I disable the 'Mind Reading' feature on Google? Did Homeland
Security make them install it or was the communist Chinese politburo?

Will they track me even more after asking for privacy?

mike

[Tim Wescott]

Post by m II

Post by m II
http://ixquick.com/eng/power-search.html
and, as a bonus, they promise not to spy on you.

It just keeps getting better and better....
http://ixquick.com/eng/advanced-search.html

Thanks -- that seems to work like Altavista used to, before they
realized they needed to make money. So as long as IxQuick's money holds
out...

[Robert Maas, http://tinyurl.com/uh3t]

Post by m II
http://ixquick.com/eng/power-search.html

I tried that without success. I entered my own name as an exact
phrase, got several search results, none of which was anything to
do with myself. In the case of people's names, I'd rather see a
disambiguation page that shows each of the people with that exact
name, each person listed exactly ONCE there, plus a list of similar
names. Then if I click on one of the specific people from that list
I'd expect to see info *only* about that one specific person, not
about other people by the same name. Do you know of any existing
search engine that provides such a service? If not, would you
support me in building such a system? My own system would identify
each person by a photo and location and some key information such
as primary occupation and major achievements. My system would use a
combination of public registries such as IMDB.Com and private
acquaintance affidavits such as would appear within
http://TinyURL.Com/RLLink.

[l***@fonz.dk]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates  (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item:  "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee.  How do you answer?
--
Rich

"where do you want it?"

:)

-Lasse

[Androcles]

"RichD" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:c88f2b14-ed0b-4248-a325-***@l20g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
| On Sep 2, Joe Snod <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
| > How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
| > ward to sea level?
|
| During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
| twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
| ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
|
| One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
|
| You are an interviewee. How do you answer?
|

0> Move Mt. Fuji relative to what?
1> No need, Mt. Fuji is already moving by natural erosion.
2> Pick up a pebble that was part of Mt. Fuji.
3> One snowflake at a time.
4> If Mt. Fuji won't go to Mohammed, Mohammed must go to Mt. Fuji.
5> Take a photograph on Fujifilm.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fujifilm

[Michael A. Terrell]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

Take a photo, print it and lay it on the interviewer's desk.

[Pascal J. Bourguignon]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

Relative to what?

If it's relative to any thing smaller than it, I'd try to move the
smaller thing first. ;-)


Where to?

If we just want an horizontal translation, I would pierce parallel
tunnels underneath, and place wheeled supports, and then pierce other
parallel tunnels between the first tunnels, and place wheeled
supports, and so on until there remains no rock between the parallel
tunnels. Then the mount would be over my wheeled supports, and I
could drive it someplace where (of course, in the mean time a very
large road would have been build to the destination.

Now, Mt Fuji is 3776 m high, so the weight under the summit would be
about 5*3776 = 18880 tons. Perhaps we can't make wheeled supports
strong enough. In this case we could use a bath of mercury. We would
have to pierce only little holes, fill them with mercury, and pierce
other little holes in between, etc until the mount is detached and
flots on the mercury (eg. like the Eiffel Tower). Then we would just
have to make a mercury canal where to we want to move it, and call
Tokyo metro pushers to push the mount. (In case of countrary wind, we
could pump out the mercury and let the mount stand in the canal bed.)


If we want a vertical translation, I would go for the cut and slice
method, using big lasers, I would cut it in little cubes, and wrap
them up, and call UPS or Arianespace, depending on the destination.

[Ben Pfaff]

Post by RichD
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

"I don't think that would approved by the environmental review
board."

[mpm]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates  (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item:  "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee.  How do you answer?
--
Rich

That's easy.
I would just open up any Microsoft mapping program and point out that
they had the coordinates wrong!

-mpm

[Tim Wescott]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

"Tell Bill Gates that Oracle was making money with it where it is".

(I would rather starve than work at Microsoft).

[Dan]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates  (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item:  "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee.  How do you answer?

I think that such a question serves more to study how you will
"respond" to such an open-ended question while under pressure than it
is to see what type of technical solution you may come up with. In
fact, attempting to answer in a technical way may just open the door
nice and wide so that you can walk out and away from the unsuccessful
interview ( unless of course, you think anyone can easily just pop
off a viable technical way to move a mountain while sitting in an
interview ).

:-)

Post by RichD
--
Rich

[quasi]

Post by Dan

Post by RichD
During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates  (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item:  "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee.  How do you answer?

I think that such a question serves more to study how you will
"respond" to such an open-ended question while under pressure than it
is to see what type of technical solution you may come up with. In
fact, attempting to answer in a technical way may just open the door
nice and wide so that you can walk out and away from the unsuccessful
interview ( unless of course, you think anyone can easily just pop
off a viable technical way to move a mountain while sitting in an
interview ).
:-)

Exactly.

My immediate reaction would be that the question is being posed as a
test of judgement (and maturity).

Thus, my answer, with almost no delay:

"You don't! Next question?"

quasi

[quasi]

Post by quasi

Post by Dan

Post by RichD
During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates  (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item:  "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee.  How do you answer?

I think that such a question serves more to study how you will
"respond" to such an open-ended question while under pressure than it
is to see what type of technical solution you may come up with. In
fact, attempting to answer in a technical way may just open the door
nice and wide so that you can walk out and away from the unsuccessful
interview ( unless of course, you think anyone can easily just pop
off a viable technical way to move a mountain while sitting in an
interview ).
:-)

Exactly.
My immediate reaction would be that the question is being posed as a
test of judgement (and maturity).
"You don't! Next question?"

Or maybe they're also testing for a sense of humor (in which case, I
like Sjouke Burry's simple response "Piece by piece").

quasi

[Joel Koltner]

Post by Dan
I think that such a question serves more to study how you will
"respond" to such an open-ended question while under pressure than it
is to see what type of technical solution you may come up with.

You're probably right.

Post by Dan
In
fact, attempting to answer in a technical way may just open the door
nice and wide so that you can walk out and away from the unsuccessful
interview

I'd prefer to work for a company where, if you have a would-be customer who
asks something along the lines of, "How do I move Mt. Fuji?" (i.e., some
near-impossible task), they're being serious and fully expect you to come up
with a serious answer rather than being cute or clever and telling them you'll
give them a photo of the mountain or that you don't need to do anything at all
because the Earth is constantly in motion anyway.

Of course, when someone asks you to do something that's close to impossible,
the only serious response is that you first need to find out a lot more
details as to what the problem really is and what the constraints are; in the
case of Mt. Fuji it's pretty self-evident that the first barrier you'll have
to moving the mountain is far more political than technical -- until you get
permission to move it, there's little point in spending many engineering
dollars worrying about how it's going to be done! (It's not uncommon for a
customer to e.g., ask you to move Mt. Fuji when in actuality all they want to
do is build a railroad from one side of it to the other and it's actually
perfectly acceptable to bore a tunnel through it, which ends up being far
faster/earier/cheaper.)

---Joel

[Moi]

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain twisters to
candidates (maybe still do), looking for ingenuity, resourcefulness,
etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

I don't even know where mount Fugi is.
I know the mont Ventoux
and maybe a few others
but is it important ?
maybe I could generalize:
give me a fixed point and I could move the universe

AvK
[Oh, and I don't want to work for microsoft. Just in case]

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Moi wrote:
[snip]

Post by Moi
I don't even know where mount Fugi is.

Not where it used to be, thanks to all those Microsoft job candidates.

[whit3rd]

Post by RichD
One item:  "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee.  How do you answer?

A peak is typically located by the coordinates of the
highest spot. If it's a smooth peak, the sensitivity of
that high spot is large to the movement of relatively
small amounts of material. So, small motions are easy.

Travel cost is large, though, I'd hire a local agency to
perform the work, and maybe a second to inspect it.

[Les Cargill]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?
--
Rich

So M$ is full of people who didn't answer "I don't."

Makes lots of sense.

--
Les Cargill

[Sjouke Burry]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?
--
Rich

Piece by piece.

[d***@yahoo.com]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates  (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item:  "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee.  How do you answer?

Spehro already took the best answer. Hmmm.

Answer #1:
"With a haiku." (Or perhaps a sonnet.)

Answer #2:
"Why are some doves white?" (Whereupon the interviewer, stunned,
suddenly reaches enlightenment.)

--
Cheers,
James Arthur

[Daniel T.]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

Tell me how you would gauge whether or not I succeeded, and I will tell
you how I'll move it.

Test first mountain moving anybody? :-)

[Jon]

Post by Daniel T.

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

Tell me how you would gauge whether or not I succeeded, and I will tell
you how I'll move it.
Test first mountain moving anybody? :-)

Use a mustard seed?

[Rich Grise]

Post by Jon

Post by Daniel T.

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

Tell me how you would gauge whether or not I succeeded, and I will tell
you how I'll move it.
Test first mountain moving anybody? :-)

Use a mustard seed?

Well, that old adage isn't "With faith, you can have a mountain moved
for you;" it's "with faith, YOU can move mountains." So be sure to
bring a shovel along with your mustard seed. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

[Francesco S. Carta]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

Carefully :-)

---

In the page...

http://www.careerknowhow.com/interviewtips/mtfuji.htm

...the section about "The impossible question" reports these (formatted
and numbered here for convenience)...

Post by RichD
1) How many piano tuners are there in the world?
2) If the Star Trek transporter was for real, how would that affect the transportation industry?
3) Why does a mirror reverse right and left instead of up and down?
4) If you could remove any of the fifty U.S. states, which would it be?
5) Why are beer cans tapered on the ends?
6) How long would it take to move Mount Fuji?

...then the excerpt continues so...

Post by RichD
In the human resources trade, some of these riddles are privately known as impossible questions.

...and that's so weird... everybody knows that:

1) there are no piano tuners at all on Earth, because
2) they were all transported to a Klingon spaceship when
3) mirrors revealed their stupidly/reflective paradox in
4) the fifty-first state, where the interviewee
5) finished inspecting the inside of the last can and
6) asked back "the one on the left, or that on the right?"

[Rich Grise]

Post by RichD
3) Why does a mirror reverse right and left instead of up and down?

It doesn't. It reverses front-to-back. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

[Francesco S. Carta]

Post by Rich Grise

Post by RichD
3) Why does a mirror reverse right and left instead of up and down?

It doesn't. It reverses front-to-back. ;-)

Very good, you spotted /one/ of the non-impossible questions :-)

[pete]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

Shoot the hostage.

[PeterD]

On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:42:25 -0700 (PDT), RichD

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

BTW, the *correct* answer is:

"Why would I want to move it again?"

This answer demonstrates that the applicant has a positive attitude
about his/her abilities and feels they can do anything. Often in life,
success is based on attitude first, then abilities. Of course if an
application has a great attitude but has no abilities you still would
not hire him/her, but that attitude would be a determining factor!

[Androcles]

"PeterD" <***@hipson.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
| On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:42:25 -0700 (PDT), RichD
| <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
|
| >On Sep 2, Joe Snod <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
| >> How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
| >> ward to sea level?
| >
| >During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
| >twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
| >ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
| >
| >One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
| >
| >You are an interviewee. How do you answer?
|
| BTW, the *correct* answer is:
|
| "Why would I want to move it again?"
|
| This answer demonstrates that the applicant has a positive attitude
| about his/her abilities and feels they can do anything.

This answer demonstrates that the psychotic egomaniac has a
positive attitude about his/her abilities and feels they can do
the impossible.

Engineering is teamwork, no one person can design a plane, a car
or a cruise liner. A primadonna like that would be disruptive and
upset the other team members.

Everyone knows that ant can't move a rubber tree plant! (but
the entire colony can).
Don't call us, we'll call you. Next, please.

[PeterD]

On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 14:16:19 +0100, "Androcles"

Post by Androcles
| On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:42:25 -0700 (PDT), RichD
|
| >> How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
| >> ward to sea level?
| >
| >During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
| >twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
| >ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
| >
| >One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
| >
| >You are an interviewee. How do you answer?
|
|
| "Why would I want to move it again?"
|
| This answer demonstrates that the applicant has a positive attitude
| about his/her abilities and feels they can do anything.
This answer demonstrates that the psychotic egomaniac has a
positive attitude about his/her abilities and feels they can do
the impossible.
Engineering is teamwork, no one person can design a plane, a car
or a cruise liner. A primadonna like that would be disruptive and
upset the other team members.
Everyone knows that ant can't move a rubber tree plant! (but
the entire colony can).
Don't call us, we'll call you. Next, please.

A chain (or team) is only as strong as its weakest link! <g>

[Androcles]

"PeterD" <***@hipson.net> wrote in message news:***@4ax.com...
| On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 14:16:19 +0100, "Androcles"
| <***@Hogwarts.physics_aa> wrote:
|
| >
| >"PeterD" <***@hipson.net> wrote in message
| >news:***@4ax.com...
| >| On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:42:25 -0700 (PDT), RichD
| >| <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
| >|
| >| >On Sep 2, Joe Snod <***@yahoo.com> wrote:
| >| >> How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
| >| >> ward to sea level?
| >| >
| >| >During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
| >| >twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
| >| >ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
| >| >
| >| >One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
| >| >
| >| >You are an interviewee. How do you answer?
| >|
| >| BTW, the *correct* answer is:
| >|
| >| "Why would I want to move it again?"
| >|
| >| This answer demonstrates that the applicant has a positive attitude
| >| about his/her abilities and feels they can do anything.
| >
| >This answer demonstrates that the psychotic egomaniac has a
| >positive attitude about his/her abilities and feels they can do
| >the impossible.
| >
| >Engineering is teamwork, no one person can design a plane, a car
| >or a cruise liner. A primadonna like that would be disruptive and
| >upset the other team members.
| >
| >Everyone knows that ant can't move a rubber tree plant! (but
| >the entire colony can).
| >Don't call us, we'll call you. Next, please.
| >
|
| A chain (or team) is only as strong as its weakest link! <g>
|
Correct, which is why the interview weeds out the weak links.
"How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
Hire lawyers, get a contract signed by the Japanese government
and payment arranged for the feasibility study.
Hire geologists to estimate the difficulties... yada yada yada...
just as it is done in normal business. Moving Mt. Fuji is just
another engineering project, much less difficult than reaching
the Moon. One presumes the Japanese want it moved for a
reason and have some idea where they want it moved to, but it
will not be cheap; it could be a lucrative contract, so there will
be competition for it. Your facetious answer will not win the
contract, you are a weak link.

[Ian Collins]

Post by PeterD
On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 14:16:19 +0100, "Androcles"

Post by Androcles
Engineering is teamwork, no one person can design a plane, a car
or a cruise liner. A primadonna like that would be disruptive and
upset the other team members.
Everyone knows that ant can't move a rubber tree plant! (but
the entire colony can).
Don't call us, we'll call you. Next, please.

A chain (or team) is only as strong as its weakest link!<g>

A chain takes the strain in series, a team spreads the load!

[Paul Hovnanian P.E.]

Post by Androcles
| On Thu, 2 Sep 2010 11:42:25 -0700 (PDT), RichD
|
| >> How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
| >> ward to sea level?
| >
| >During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
| >twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
| >ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
| >
| >One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
| >
| >You are an interviewee. How do you answer?
|
|
| "Why would I want to move it again?"
|
| This answer demonstrates that the applicant has a positive attitude
| about his/her abilities and feels they can do anything.
This answer demonstrates that the psychotic egomaniac has a
positive attitude about his/her abilities and feels they can do
the impossible.
Engineering is teamwork, no one person can design a plane, a car
or a cruise liner. A primadonna like that would be disruptive and
upset the other team members.

That's the answer*: Delegate the task to my team.

*That was the answer when I was at Boeing. Everyone is a manager
wanna-be, looking for the one poor slob who actually does some work.

[Sylvia Else]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.

Can't imagine why. There's no evidence that they make use of it
subsequently.

Sylvia.

[Spehro Pefhany]

On Fri, 03 Sep 2010 23:54:36 +1000, Sylvia Else

Post by Sylvia Else

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.

Can't imagine why. There's no evidence that they make use of it
subsequently.
Sylvia.

To cripple the competition. A common theme in industry (and
geopolitics).

[osmium]

Post by Sylvia Else

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.

Can't imagine why. There's no evidence that they make use of it
subsequently.

Perhaps the people who administer the test don't know what the right answer
is either, so they give a pass to the wrong people?

The Fuji question still seems pointless to me.

[Rui Maciel]

Post by osmium
Perhaps the people who administer the test don't know what the right
answer is either, so they give a pass to the wrong people?

I believe that that is the case with all the employment decisions made exclusively by HR
departments/consultants. In those cases you get your employment decisions being made by incompetent
people who are absolutely clueless about what they are dealing with.


Rui Maciel

[m II]

Post by Sylvia Else

Post by RichD
During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.

Can't imagine why. There's no evidence that they make use of it
subsequently.

Perhaps if they did software engineering instead of imaginary mountain
moving..

How does a company get so far with such horrible products? If a car
company's products had even a small percentage of Microsoft's flaws,
they would have been bankrupt or sued out of existence YEARS ago.


"That's not a huge turd...It's a FEATURE"
B. Gates




mike

[Rui Maciel]

Post by m II
How does a company get so far with such horrible products? If a car
company's products had even a small percentage of Microsoft's flaws,
they would have been bankrupt or sued out of existence YEARS ago.

Any company can succeed, no matter how crappy their product/service is, as long as it is the only
company supplying a market.


Rui Maciel

[Joel Koltner]

Post by m II
How does a company get so far with such horrible products? If a car
company's products had even a small percentage of Microsoft's flaws,
they would have been bankrupt or sued out of existence YEARS ago.

They're not really "horrible," though -- I've certainly had cars that broke
down more often than Windows does these days. :-)

The other thing to keep in mind is that you're kinda comparing apples and
oranges anyway: With an operating system, you add software that interacts with
the core OS in very close relationship, yet when there's a problem people tend
to blame the OS when, in the vast majority of cases, it's really an
application bug. Certainly one can argue that the OS could and should be more
"bulletproof" wrt errant applications, but wrt cars, while there certainly are
a few people adding turbo chargers or re-programmed engine timing profiles or
similar to their vehicles, the vast majority of "vehicle accessories"
("software") in no way interacts with the main control and propulsion systems
in the vehicle.

But the point I really wanted to make is... how did Microsoft become so big
when there were technically superior products available? The answer there is
basically Steve Ballmer. The guy has always worked far harder than the
average bear to drum up sales for Microsoft, and it's a classic example of
where good marketing can easily overcome technical flaws in a system.

---JOel

[k***@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

On Fri, 3 Sep 2010 10:01:05 -0700, "Joel Koltner"

Post by Joel Koltner

Post by m II
How does a company get so far with such horrible products? If a car
company's products had even a small percentage of Microsoft's flaws,
they would have been bankrupt or sued out of existence YEARS ago.

They're not really "horrible," though -- I've certainly had cars that broke
down more often than Windows does these days. :-)

Odd. I certainly wouldn't have a car that crashed as often as Windows does.

Post by Joel Koltner
The other thing to keep in mind is that you're kinda comparing apples and
oranges anyway: With an operating system, you add software that interacts with
the core OS in very close relationship, yet when there's a problem people tend
to blame the OS when, in the vast majority of cases, it's really an
application bug.

Applications should *never* be able to bring down an OS. If that happens it
is the OS's fault anyway. OSs aren't applications and have to be held to a
higher standard, as should their programmers.

Post by Joel Koltner
Certainly one can argue that the OS could and should be more
"bulletproof" wrt errant applications, but wrt cars, while there certainly are
a few people adding turbo chargers or re-programmed engine timing profiles or
similar to their vehicles, the vast majority of "vehicle accessories"
("software") in no way interacts with the main control and propulsion systems
in the vehicle.
But the point I really wanted to make is... how did Microsoft become so big
when there were technically superior products available? The answer there is
basically Steve Ballmer. The guy has always worked far harder than the
average bear to drum up sales for Microsoft, and it's a classic example of
where good marketing can easily overcome technical flaws in a system.

If "worked far harder" == "far more crooked", perhaps. But you have Ballmer
nailed.

[RichD]

how did Microsoft become so big when there were
technically superior products available?  
The answer there is basically Steve Ballmer.  The guy
has always worked far harder than the average bear
to drum up sales for Microsoft, and it's a classic example
of where good marketing can easily overcome technical
flaws in a system.

If "worked far harder" == "far more crooked", perhaps.  
But you have Ballmer nailed.

Money talks, bullshit walks, losers.

--
RIch

[Androcles]

Post by k***@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz

how did Microsoft become so big when there were
technically superior products available?
The answer there is basically Steve Ballmer. The guy
has always worked far harder than the average bear
to drum up sales for Microsoft, and it's a classic example
of where good marketing can easily overcome technical
flaws in a system.

If "worked far harder" == "far more crooked", perhaps.
But you have Ballmer nailed.

Money talks, bullshit walks, losers.

============================
You have that right, Richard. What we are seeing from Koltner
and "***@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz" (a clear shithead with that name)
is plain old jealousy and miserable bitching.

[Joel Koltner]

Hi Keith,

Post by k***@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
Applications should *never* be able to bring down an OS. If that happens it
is the OS's fault anyway. OSs aren't applications and have to be held to a
higher standard, as should their programmers.

Agreed, I'm just saying that many people jump to "Windows sucks" when their
applications crash (...but the OS itself is holding up just fine...) -- many
people just don't have a very clear distinction between the OS an apps.

There's some You Tube video where someone went around asking people on the
street what a "web browser" was, and not surprisingly very few people gave
reasonably correct responses. (I think the motivation was that, to get people
to switch from Internet Explorer to FireFox or similar, and the point was that
FireFox is never going to largely display IE because most people wouldn't even
know the option to switch existed or why they'd want to...)

Post by k***@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz
If "worked far harder" == "far more crooked", perhaps. But you have Ballmer
nailed.

:-) Yeah, his ethics may be rather questionable at times -- same as with
Gates & Jobs --, but he is a very hard-working man -- also like Gates & Jobs.

---Joel

[mpm]

Post by Joel Koltner
Hi Keith,

Applications should *never* be able to bring down an OS.  If that happens it
is the OS's fault anyway.  OSs aren't applications and have to be held to a
higher standard, as should their programmers.

Agreed, I'm just saying that many people jump to "Windows sucks" when their
applications crash (...but the OS itself is holding up just fine...) -- many
people just don't have a very clear distinction between the OS an apps.
There's some You Tube video where someone went around asking people on the
street what a "web browser" was, and not surprisingly very few people gave
reasonably correct responses.  (I think the motivation was that, to get people
to switch from Internet Explorer to FireFox or similar, and the point was that
FireFox is never going to largely display IE because most people wouldn't even
know the option to switch existed or why they'd want to...)

If "worked far harder" == "far more crooked", perhaps.  But you have Ballmer
nailed.

:-)  Yeah, his ethics may be rather questionable at times -- same as with
Gates & Jobs --, but he is a very hard-working man -- also like Gates & Jobs.
---Joel

Just because people jump to that conclusion, doesn't mean it's wrong.

[Androcles]

"Joel Koltner" <***@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:_cUgo.96073$***@en-nntp-14.dc1.easynews.com...
| Hi Keith,
|
| <***@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz> wrote in message
| news:***@4ax.com...
| > Applications should *never* be able to bring down an OS. If that
happens it
| > is the OS's fault anyway. OSs aren't applications and have to be held
to a
| > higher standard, as should their programmers.
|
| Agreed, I'm just saying that many people jump to "Windows sucks" when
their
| applications crash (...but the OS itself is holding up just fine...) --
many
| people just don't have a very clear distinction between the OS an apps.

Yep.
Pull up Google Earth, display a streetview photograph, exit the photograph
and exit Google Earth. No problem, system normal.

Pull up Google Earth, display a streetview photograph, exit Google Earth
without exiting the photograph.

"Google Earth has encountered a problem and needs to close. Please tell
Microsoft about this problem."

Why? I'd rather tell Google about it, and anyway it's not even a problem,
Google Earth has already closed. WAHHHH! Windows SUCKS! but
of course it is minor and inconsequential glitch not worth screaming over.

|
| There's some You Tube video where someone went around asking people on the
| street what a "web browser" was, and not surprisingly very few people gave
| reasonably correct responses. (I think the motivation was that, to get
people
| to switch from Internet Explorer to FireFox or similar, and the point was
that
| FireFox is never going to largely display IE because most people wouldn't
even
| know the option to switch existed or why they'd want to...)
|
| > If "worked far harder" == "far more crooked", perhaps. But you have
Ballmer
| > nailed.
|
| :-) Yeah, his ethics may be rather questionable at times -- same as with
| Gates & Jobs --, but he is a very hard-working man -- also like Gates &
Jobs.
|
| ---Joel
|
|

[Sylvia Else]

Post by m II

Post by Sylvia Else

Post by RichD
During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.

Can't imagine why. There's no evidence that they make use of it
subsequently.

Perhaps if they did software engineering instead of imaginary mountain
moving..

Well, I'd say they do do software engineering. But that's all they do,
and it's pretty ordinary. In areas where some special ability is called
for (for example, defining interfaces) that ability seems noticeably absent.

All the important innovations (windowing sytems, Internet, WWW, etc.)
have come from elsewhere with Microsoft playing catchup.

Sylvia.

[George Herold]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates  (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item:  "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee.  How do you answer?
--
Rich

Sorry I don't know the area of the 9th ward nor it's hieght above or
below sea level.

But if I wanted to rasie the height by say 10 feet I'd guess about 200
rail cars per acre. (Assuming a rail car is about 10'x10'x20')

George H.

[George Herold]

Post by George Herold

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates  (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item:  "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee.  How do you answer?
--
Rich

Sorry I don't know the area of the 9th ward nor it's hieght above or
below sea level.
But if I wanted to rasie the height by say 10 feet I'd guess about 200
rail cars per acre.  (Assuming a rail car is about 10'x10'x20')
George H.

Ahh moving mount Fuji, My wife claims that I sometimes "make the
earth move for her", so I would book a second honeymoon on Mount Fuji
and we would keep at it till it moved.

George H.

[k***@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

Post by George Herold

Post by George Herold

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates  (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item:  "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee.  How do you answer?
--
Rich

Sorry I don't know the area of the 9th ward nor it's hieght above or
below sea level.
But if I wanted to rasie the height by say 10 feet I'd guess about 200
rail cars per acre.  (Assuming a rail car is about 10'x10'x20')
George H.

Ahh moving mount Fuji, My wife claims that I sometimes "make the
earth move for her", so I would book a second honeymoon on Mount Fuji
and we would keep at it till it moved.

Ah, that would be the right answer for Microsoft; fake it. ;-)

[Rich Grise]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?

I wouldn't. I'd move the audience, like David Copperfield did
when he made the Statue of Liberty disappear. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich

[Sylvia Else]

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item: "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee. How do you answer?
--
Rich

I'd tell it a very sad story.

Sylvia.

[Bill Bowden]

Post by Sylvia Else

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates  (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item:  "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee.  How do you answer?
--
Rich

I'd tell it a very sad story.
Sylvia.

At first I thought it would be an impossible thing to do to, but from
a google search, I found this that describes the details of moving Mt.
Fuji to Mojave, California.

http://w-uh.com/articles/030917b-really_moving_Mou.html

"Okay, we want to move Mount Fuji... So we have to make some
assumptions. First, we have to define what "moving" means. So let's
say we are going to move the entire mountain to Mojave, California.
Hey, it's desert, there's a lot of room out there.

First let's consider the overall technique. We need a bunch of
dynamite to blow up the rock. Then we need bulldozers to pick up the
rock and put it into trucks. We use the trucks to carry all the rock
to the nearest airport, where we have a fleet of 747 cargo jets
waiting (and loading equipment). From there we fly the rock to
Mojave, unload it from the planes, transfer it back into trucks, move
it into the desert, and dump it. And we'll need bulldozers to push
the rock back into shape.

There is a philosophical question as to whether, having moved all the
rock and reshaped it, we still have Mount Fuji. We certainly have the
parts to Mount Fuji, but is the mountain still the mountain after it
has been moved in this way? I'll leave the philosophy alone (for
once!) and just say we stipulate up front that moving the parts is
equivalent to moving the mountain.

Next we have to figure out how big the mountain is... Well, I Googled
and figured out it is 3,776 meters high (about 13,000 ft.). I might
have guessed about 12,000 ft. without Google because that's about the
height of Mt. Whitney (the tallest peak in the California Sierra
Nevada range). The shape of this mountain is nearly a perfect cone,
with the width of the base about three times the height. As you know,
the volume of a cone is given by:

(base area * height) / 3 = (πr2 * height) / 3

So this means the volume of Mount Fuji is approximately:

(π * 18,000 * 18,000 * 12,000) / 3 ≈ 12 x 1012 ft3

That's a lot of rock. Next let's figure out how much this might
weigh. Imagine a rock the size of a cubic foot. Could you pick it
up? I'd say barely. It probably would weigh about 100 lbs. So that
means we have a lot of heavy rock to move:

12 x 1012 x 100 lbs = 12 x 1014 lbs = 6 x 109 tons

Cool. Okay, so how many 747s would we need? A 747 can carry about
500 people with all their luggage. The people weigh about 150 lbs on
average, and their luggage probably weighs about the same, so we're
talking 500 x 300 = 150,000 lbs, or about 75 tons. Let's say for
cargo purposes we could carry 100 tons. Would that be the limiting
factor, or would volume? Well, if each ton is about 20 cubic feet,
then we're talking about 2,000 cubic feet. That's 10 ft x 10 ft x 20
ft, so clearly the size of the rock would not matter. (Actually since
the rock would be broken up it would take more space, but not that
much more.) We would therefore need 6 x 107 = 60M plane flights. If
we had a fleet of 1,000 planes flying in parallel, and each plane made
two flights per day, it would take 30,000 days or around 100 years.

That's a long time, but this is a big project. Many of the great
European cathedrals took over 100 years to build, as did the Great
Wall in China and the Great Pyramid in Egypt...

What about trucks? Well, I'd guess a really big dump truck could haul
25 tons. (That would be about 5,000 cubic feet, or 10 ft x 10 ft x 50
ft, roughly speaking.) So we'd need four times as many trucks as
planes. I don't know how close the nearest airport is to Mount Fuji,
but let's assume we could make two trips from the mountain to the
airport each day (same as plane flights), so we'd need 4,000 trucks.
No problem. Oh yeah and we'd need about the same number of trucks on
the other end, too.

Now, about those bulldozers. Well, let's say it takes one bulldozer
to load one truck. We assumed the trucks make two trips per day, so
now let's assume a trip is really four hours of loading, four hours of
driving, and four hours of unloading. That would give a bulldozer
four hours to do the loading, and that seems reasonable. So pencil in
4,000 bulldozers. I'm sure there would be some traffic problems with
that many bulldozers roaming around the mountain, but we could deal
with that. No worse than the Ventura Freeway at rush hour :) And as
with the trucks we'd need the same number of bulldozers to rebuild the
mountain in Mojave.

So, that's how I'd move Mount Fuji into the Mojave desert. Give me
8,000 bulldozers, 8,000 dump trucks, 1,000 cargo jets, and (of course)
the people to man them, and it would take me about 100 years. No
problem. "

-Bill

[k***@att.bizzzzzzzzzzzz]

Post by Bill Bowden

Post by Sylvia Else

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates  (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item:  "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee.  How do you answer?
--
Rich

I'd tell it a very sad story.
Sylvia.

At first I thought it would be an impossible thing to do to, but from
a google search, I found this that describes the details of moving Mt.
Fuji to Mojave, California.
http://w-uh.com/articles/030917b-really_moving_Mou.html
"Okay, we want to move Mount Fuji... So we have to make some
assumptions. First, we have to define what "moving" means. So let's
say we are going to move the entire mountain to Mojave, California.
Hey, it's desert, there's a lot of room out there.
First let's consider the overall technique. We need a bunch of
dynamite to blow up the rock. Then we need bulldozers to pick up the
rock and put it into trucks. We use the trucks to carry all the rock
to the nearest airport, where we have a fleet of 747 cargo jets
waiting (and loading equipment). From there we fly the rock to
Mojave, unload it from the planes, transfer it back into trucks, move
it into the desert, and dump it. And we'll need bulldozers to push
the rock back into shape.
There is a philosophical question as to whether, having moved all the
rock and reshaped it, we still have Mount Fuji. We certainly have the
parts to Mount Fuji, but is the mountain still the mountain after it
has been moved in this way? I'll leave the philosophy alone (for
once!) and just say we stipulate up front that moving the parts is
equivalent to moving the mountain.
Next we have to figure out how big the mountain is... Well, I Googled
and figured out it is 3,776 meters high (about 13,000 ft.). I might
have guessed about 12,000 ft. without Google because that's about the
height of Mt. Whitney (the tallest peak in the California Sierra
Nevada range). The shape of this mountain is nearly a perfect cone,
with the width of the base about three times the height. As you know,
(base area * height) / 3 = (?r2 * height) / 3
(? * 18,000 * 18,000 * 12,000) / 3 ? 12 x 1012 ft3
That's a lot of rock. Next let's figure out how much this might
weigh. Imagine a rock the size of a cubic foot. Could you pick it
up? I'd say barely. It probably would weigh about 100 lbs. So that
12 x 1012 x 100 lbs = 12 x 1014 lbs = 6 x 109 tons
Cool. Okay, so how many 747s would we need? A 747 can carry about
500 people with all their luggage. The people weigh about 150 lbs on
average, and their luggage probably weighs about the same, so we're
talking 500 x 300 = 150,000 lbs, or about 75 tons. Let's say for
cargo purposes we could carry 100 tons. Would that be the limiting
factor, or would volume? Well, if each ton is about 20 cubic feet,
then we're talking about 2,000 cubic feet. That's 10 ft x 10 ft x 20
ft, so clearly the size of the rock would not matter. (Actually since
the rock would be broken up it would take more space, but not that
much more.) We would therefore need 6 x 107 = 60M plane flights. If
we had a fleet of 1,000 planes flying in parallel, and each plane made
two flights per day, it would take 30,000 days or around 100 years.

747s can lift upwards of 250Klbs with a gross weight of 1.2M. You're close.

Post by Bill Bowden
That's a long time, but this is a big project. Many of the great
European cathedrals took over 100 years to build, as did the Great
Wall in China and the Great Pyramid in Egypt...

IT's certainly not known with 100% certainty but it is believed that the Great
Pyramid was built in about 10 years. The entire plain at Giza was on the
order of 100 years.

Post by Bill Bowden
What about trucks? Well, I'd guess a really big dump truck could haul
25 tons. (That would be about 5,000 cubic feet, or 10 ft x 10 ft x 50
ft, roughly speaking.) So we'd need four times as many trucks as
planes. I don't know how close the nearest airport is to Mount Fuji,
but let's assume we could make two trips from the mountain to the
airport each day (same as plane flights), so we'd need 4,000 trucks.
No problem. Oh yeah and we'd need about the same number of trucks on
the other end, too.
Now, about those bulldozers. Well, let's say it takes one bulldozer
to load one truck. We assumed the trucks make two trips per day, so
now let's assume a trip is really four hours of loading, four hours of
driving, and four hours of unloading. That would give a bulldozer
four hours to do the loading, and that seems reasonable. So pencil in
4,000 bulldozers. I'm sure there would be some traffic problems with
that many bulldozers roaming around the mountain, but we could deal
with that. No worse than the Ventura Freeway at rush hour :) And as
with the trucks we'd need the same number of bulldozers to rebuild the
mountain in Mojave.
So, that's how I'd move Mount Fuji into the Mojave desert. Give me
8,000 bulldozers, 8,000 dump trucks, 1,000 cargo jets, and (of course)
the people to man them, and it would take me about 100 years. No
problem. "

Nice numbers, but you left out the most difficult and time-consuming part of
the entire project; government red tape.

[Virgil]

In article

Post by Bill Bowden

Post by Sylvia Else

Post by RichD

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

During job interviews, Microsoft used to present brain
twisters to candidates  (maybe still do), looking for
ingenuity, resourcefulness, etc.
One item:  "How would you move Mt. Fuji?"
You are an interviewee.  How do you answer?
--
Rich

I'd tell it a very sad story.
Sylvia.

At first I thought it would be an impossible thing to do to, but from
a google search, I found this that describes the details of moving Mt.
Fuji to Mojave, California.
http://w-uh.com/articles/030917b-really_moving_Mou.html
"Okay, we want to move Mount Fuji... So we have to make some
assumptions. First, we have to define what "moving" means. So let's
say we are going to move the entire mountain to Mojave, California.
Hey, it's desert, there's a lot of room out there.
First let's consider the overall technique. We need a bunch of
dynamite to blow up the rock. Then we need bulldozers to pick up the
rock and put it into trucks. We use the trucks to carry all the rock
to the nearest airport, where we have a fleet of 747 cargo jets
waiting (and loading equipment). From there we fly the rock to
Mojave, unload it from the planes, transfer it back into trucks, move
it into the desert, and dump it. And we'll need bulldozers to push
the rock back into shape.
There is a philosophical question as to whether, having moved all the
rock and reshaped it, we still have Mount Fuji. We certainly have the
parts to Mount Fuji, but is the mountain still the mountain after it
has been moved in this way? I'll leave the philosophy alone (for
once!) and just say we stipulate up front that moving the parts is
equivalent to moving the mountain.
Next we have to figure out how big the mountain is... Well, I Googled
and figured out it is 3,776 meters high (about 13,000 ft.). I might
have guessed about 12,000 ft. without Google because that's about the
height of Mt. Whitney (the tallest peak in the California Sierra
Nevada range). The shape of this mountain is nearly a perfect cone,
with the width of the base about three times the height. As you know,
(base area * height) / 3 = (πr2 * height) / 3
(π * 18,000 * 18,000 * 12,000) / 3 ≈ 12 x 1012 ft3
That's a lot of rock. Next let's figure out how much this might
weigh. Imagine a rock the size of a cubic foot. Could you pick it
up? I'd say barely. It probably would weigh about 100 lbs. So that
12 x 1012 x 100 lbs = 12 x 1014 lbs = 6 x 109 tons
Cool. Okay, so how many 747s would we need? A 747 can carry about
500 people with all their luggage. The people weigh about 150 lbs on
average, and their luggage probably weighs about the same, so we're
talking 500 x 300 = 150,000 lbs, or about 75 tons. Let's say for
cargo purposes we could carry 100 tons. Would that be the limiting
factor, or would volume? Well, if each ton is about 20 cubic feet,
then we're talking about 2,000 cubic feet. That's 10 ft x 10 ft x 20
ft, so clearly the size of the rock would not matter. (Actually since
the rock would be broken up it would take more space, but not that
much more.) We would therefore need 6 x 107 = 60M plane flights. If
we had a fleet of 1,000 planes flying in parallel, and each plane made
two flights per day, it would take 30,000 days or around 100 years.
That's a long time, but this is a big project. Many of the great
European cathedrals took over 100 years to build, as did the Great
Wall in China and the Great Pyramid in Egypt...
What about trucks? Well, I'd guess a really big dump truck could haul
25 tons. (That would be about 5,000 cubic feet, or 10 ft x 10 ft x 50
ft, roughly speaking.) So we'd need four times as many trucks as
planes. I don't know how close the nearest airport is to Mount Fuji,
but let's assume we could make two trips from the mountain to the
airport each day (same as plane flights), so we'd need 4,000 trucks.
No problem. Oh yeah and we'd need about the same number of trucks on
the other end, too.
Now, about those bulldozers. Well, let's say it takes one bulldozer
to load one truck. We assumed the trucks make two trips per day, so
now let's assume a trip is really four hours of loading, four hours of
driving, and four hours of unloading. That would give a bulldozer
four hours to do the loading, and that seems reasonable. So pencil in
4,000 bulldozers. I'm sure there would be some traffic problems with
that many bulldozers roaming around the mountain, but we could deal
with that. No worse than the Ventura Freeway at rush hour :) And as
with the trucks we'd need the same number of bulldozers to rebuild the
mountain in Mojave.
So, that's how I'd move Mount Fuji into the Mojave desert. Give me
8,000 bulldozers, 8,000 dump trucks, 1,000 cargo jets, and (of course)
the people to man them, and it would take me about 100 years. No
problem. "
-Bill

Mount Fuji, being volcanic, might express some active resistance to
being disturbed, even though it has been quiet for the last 3 centuries.

[p***@my-deja.com]

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

42.

[Axel Vogt]

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

Answer: "Why? - what is intended?"

[KBH]

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

My idea was to use rocks 4-feet in diameter and build a rock wall
inside the levies. The rock wall would be wide down low and narrow up
top. It would stand up to a rush of water from a levy break and it
would only leak slowly. And if a rush of water dug under it, the rocks
would just settle into the void.

The effect of the weight of the rock wall is something to consider. It
might push up the ground around it and support the levies. Or it might
take the levies down with it. And the rock wall might sink or it might
pack it's spot. I think it would sink but there is no harm in it
sinking except for the lost height.

[Androcles]

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

My idea was to use rocks 4-feet in diameter and build a rock wall
inside the levies. The rock wall would be wide down low and narrow up
top. It would stand up to a rush of water from a levy break and it
would only leak slowly. And if a rush of water dug under it, the rocks
would just settle into the void.

The effect of the weight of the rock wall is something to consider. It
might push up the ground around it and support the levies. Or it might
take the levies down with it. And the rock wall might sink or it might
pack it's spot. I think it would sink but there is no harm in it
sinking except for the lost height.

============================================
Wow! You should tell the Dutch, they've been doing it the old way.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polder
The Dutch have a long history of reclamation of marshes and fenland,
resulting in some 3,000 polders nationwide. About half of all polder surface
within northwest Europe is located within the Netherlands. The first
embankments in Europe were constructed in Roman times. The first polders
were constructed in the 11th century.

God created the world, but the Dutch created Holland.

[KBH]

Post by Androcles
============================================
Wow! You should tell the Dutch, they've been doing it the old way.
   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polder
The Dutch have a long history of reclamation of marshes and fenland,
resulting in some 3,000 polders nationwide. About half of all polder surface
within northwest Europe is located within the Netherlands. The first
embankments in Europe were constructed in Roman times. The first polders
were constructed in the 11th century.
 God created the world, but the Dutch created Holland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_flood_of_1953

[Androcles]

Post by Androcles
============================================
Wow! You should tell the Dutch, they've been doing it the old way.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polder
The Dutch have a long history of reclamation of marshes and fenland,
resulting in some 3,000 polders nationwide. About half of all polder surface
within northwest Europe is located within the Netherlands. The first
embankments in Europe were constructed in Roman times. The first polders
were constructed in the 11th century.
God created the world, but the Dutch created Holland.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_Sea_flood_of_1953

I remember it. And then there was the Wantsum Channel and
now there isn't.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/content/articles/2006/05/15/thanet_history_feature.shtmlAll this before there was any USA, so why not tell your grandma how to suckeggs?

[KBH]

Post by Joe Snod
How many railroad cars of gravel would it take to fill the lower 9th
ward to sea level?

Holland built a land mass in the size of a country with dykes.

The idea for New Orleans is just to stablize one city.

The rock levee would be built out of 4' diameter rocks. It would be
wide at the bottom and narrow at the top and the same height as the
existing levees. Those who would say use a clay core have missed the
point. The rock levee will stand up to a massive surge of water, will
drop into voids, and then will just leak. But this all depends on the
primary levee breaking. There could be an additional clay levee in the
same size and shape as the rock levee just to hold the leak of the
rock levee but this is optional.

I think the rock levee would sink about 3 feet but then be on a
compacted base. Nearby areas might be pushed up a little.